Legislature(1995 - 1996)

04/08/1995 09:12 AM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                   SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE                                  
                        Soldotna, Alaska                                       
                         April 8, 1995                                         
                           9:12 A.M.                                           
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Senator Loren Leman, Chairman                                                 
 Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                    
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE MEMBERS ABSENT                                                     
                                                                               
 Senator Drue Pearce, Vice Chairman                                            
 Senator Steve Frank                                                           
 Senator Rick Halford                                                          
 Senator Robin Taylor                                                          
 Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                         
                                                                               
  OTHER MEMBERS PRESENT                                                        
                                                                               
 Lieutenant Governor Fran Ulmer                                                
 Senator John Torgerson                                                        
 Senator Mike Miller                                                           
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
 SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 19                                                
 Requesting the Congress to amend the Alaska National Interest Lands           
 Conservation Act to clarify that the term "public lands" means only           
 federal land and water and that any extension of federal                      
 jurisdiction onto adjacent land and water is expressly prohibited.            
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
                                                                               
 SJR 19 - See Resources Committee minutes dated 3/29/95.                       
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
 Sterling Eide                                                                 
 Cook Inlet Professional Sportfishing Association                              
 Soldotna, AK 99669                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Dick Bower                                                                    
 Board of Fisheries                                                            
 P.O. Box 3662                                                                 
 Soldotna, AK 99669                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Tim Evers                                                                     
 Deep Creek Charter Boat Association                                           
 Ninilchik, AK 99639                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Lyman Nichols                                                                 
 Cooper Landing, AK 99572                                                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Dave Martin                                                                   
 Central Peninsula Advisory Committee                                          
 Soldotna, AK 99669                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Loren Flagg                                                                   
 Kenai Peninsula Fishermen's Association                                       
 34824 K-Beach Rd.                                                             
 Soldotna, AK 99669                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Tom Walker                                                                    
 Cook Inlet Aquaculture Association                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Chris Moss                                                                    
 North Pacific Fisheries Association                                           
 Homer, AK 99603                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Richard Link                                                                  
 Kenai Peninsula Chapter of Safari Club International                          
 Soldotna, AK 99669                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Lynn Whitmore, Chairman                                                       
 Homer Advisory Board                                                          
 Homer, AK 99603                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Ed Krohn, Chairman                                                            
 Kenai Advisory Board                                                          
 Soldotna, AK 99669                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Dan Haskins                                                                   
 Alaska Bowhunters                                                             
 Soldotna, AK 99669                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Leon Metz                                                                     
 Alaska Trappers                                                               
 Kenai, AK 99611                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Merle Walford                                                                 
 South Peninsula Sportsman Association                                         
 Homer Charter Association                                                     
 Homer, AK 99603                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Ed Marsters                                                                   
 Matanuska Valley Sportsmen Association                                        
 P.O. Box 892                                                                  
 Sterling, AK 99672                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Jim Reardon                                                                   
 Homer, AK 99669                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Don Poole                                                                     
 Alaska Bow Hunters                                                            
 P.O. Box 2200                                                                 
 Soldotna, AK 99669                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Charles Daniel                                                                
 P.O. Box 238                                                                  
 Kenai, AK 99611                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Seymour Mills                                                                 
 P.O. Box 51                                                                   
 Sterling, AK 99672                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Brad Ames                                                                     
 P.O. Box 396                                                                  
 Soldotna, AK 99669                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Steve Vanek                                                                   
 P.O. Box 103                                                                  
 Ninilchik, AK 99639                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Theo Matthews, Executive Director                                             
 United Cook Inlet Driftnetters Association                                    
 P.O. Box 389                                                                  
 Kenai, AK 99611                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Opposed SJR 19.                                        
                                                                               
 Gary Superman                                                                 
 P.O. Box 8425                                                                 
 Nikiski, AK 99672                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Al Franzman                                                                   
 P.O. Box 666                                                                  
 Soldotna, AK 99669                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Elaina Spraker                                                                
 P.O. Box 2534                                                                 
 Soldotna, AK 99669                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Gary Hull                                                                     
 P.O. Box 1964                                                                 
 Soldotna, AK 99669                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Debra Horne                                                                   
 P.O. Box 592                                                                  
 Kasilof, AK 99610                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Joe Schwab                                                                    
 P.O. Box 499                                                                  
 Clam Gulch, AK 99568                                                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Michael Cruger                                                                
 P.O. Box 102                                                                  
 Galena,AK 99741                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Opposed SJR 19.                                        
                                                                               
 Joseph Jolly                                                                  
 HCO1, Box 753                                                                 
 Soldotna, AK 99669                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported SJR 19.                                      
                                                                               
 Charlie Parker                                                                
 P.O. Box 349                                                                  
 Soldotna, AK 99669                                                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Commented on federal presence in Alaska.               
                                                                               
 Gary Cadd                                                                     
 Kenai, AK 99611                                                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Commented on the federal government in Alaska.         
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
  TAPE 95-39, SIDE A                                                           
 Number 001                                                                    
           SJR 19 AMEND ANILCA TO DEFINE PUBLIC LANDS                         
                                                                              
  CHAIRMAN LEMAN  called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to             
 order at 9:12 a.m. and stated that he was on teleconference from              
 Soldotna.  He announced SJR 19 which addressed management of our              
 resources to be up for consideration.                                         
 SENATOR LINCOLN apologized that she was not able to travel to                 
 Soldotna for the meeting, but she also needed to attend the Long              
 Range Fiscal Planning Committee meeting in Juneau at 11:00 a.m.               
 She said that she believed SJR 19 was an integral part of a                   
 subsistence agenda, although they would hear to the contrary.  She            
 said she is supportive of having state control of fish and game,              
 but she didn't think this was the manner in which to do it.  She              
 thought a constitutional amendment would bring us back into                   
 compliance to have management of fish and game at the state level.            
                                                                               
 SENATOR LINCOLN said she was also concerned that the hearings were            
 being held in just Fairbanks, Soldotna, and Juneau.  She was                  
 concerned that many people across the state would not be able to              
 testify and that there wasn't testimony from rural bush Alaska.               
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN said the committee is spending approximately 20 hours           
 on hearings for this legislation which is much more than they spend           
 on most legislation.                                                          
                                                                               
 SENATOR TORGERSON thanked the Resources Committee for having the              
 meeting in Soldotna.                                                          
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER said he did not think SJR 19 was a challenge to the            
 federal rural priority system.  He thought it was a simple                    
 resolution asking congress to reconfirm its commitment that it made           
 to Alaska in the Statehood Act which gives Alaska the ability to              
 manage its own fish and game.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 201                                                                    
                                                                               
 STERLING EIDE, Cook Inlet Professional Sportfishing Association,              
 said they do many projects to enhance habitat and fisheries.  They            
 support SJR 19, because they do support state management.  The                
 framework is already in place for managing a complicated fishery in           
 Cook Inlet and, in particular, the Kenai River.                               
                                                                               
 Technology is being used and improved each year by a group of                 
 experienced biologists who are also improving each year.  He would            
 hate to see us start all over again with another group of managers            
 who do not understand the problems and who, perhaps, don't care as            
 much about it as the crew that is managing it now does.                       
                                                                               
 His association believes in the regulatory system that is in place            
 now, starting with the advisory committees and including the Board            
 of Game. They believe the federal government's place in Alaska is             
 in the traditional areas of waterfowl management, the National                
 Marine Fisheries Service, and the Endangered Species Act.  There is           
 a lot of work that is needed in those areas and the feds don't need           
 to expand their resources into managing state areas.                          
                                                                               
 Number 270                                                                    
                                                                               
 DICK BOWER, Alaska Board of Fisheries, said he does not speak for             
 the Board, but he complimented the Senate for taking action at this           
 time.  He said historically that one of Alaska's problems is with             
 dealing with people who do not have the knowledge of the State and            
 do not recognize the great diversity that is here and must be taken           
 into account.  A significant threat to our fish and game will                 
 remain if the federal government fails to manage lands under its              
 control in a manner consistent with the best interests of the                 
 species that are involved, he said.                                           
                                                                               
 Whenever subsistence priority is an issue on the Board, they try to           
 weigh all of their decisions in connection with the need for seeing           
 that subsistence priorities are considered.  So he would hope that            
 the Board's best interests would stand for the subsistence use as             
 well as the overall resource.                                                 
                                                                               
 TIM EVERS, Deep Creek Charter Boat Association, supported SJR 19 to           
 help stop the federal takeover of management of our resources.                
 They believe the state can do the best job of managing the                    
 resources and that the Board of Fisheries is designed for public              
 input and serves all user groups best.  They believe the governor             
 harmed the Katie John lawsuit appeal by dropping the Babbit case.             
 Katie John asks the feds to extended its management into all state            
 waters including marine waters.  The Katie John case forces the               
 feds to take over to protect subsistence.  The problem here is that           
 the Federal Subsistence Board will have only one client, the                  
 subsistence users.  The feds don't have to balance with, or even              
 consider, other user groups.  The State of Alaska was given certain           
 rights at statehood and this type of intervention goes against the            
 Statehood Act, he said in conclusion.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 354                                                                    
                                                                               
 LYMAN NICHOLS, Cooper Landing Fish and Game Advisory Committee,               
 said Cooper Landing qualifies as a rural area and they unanimously            
 supported SJR 19.  They hope it is only the first step in the state           
 regaining management of fish and wildlife.  ADF&G is much more                
 responsive to public input than the federal government.                       
                                                                               
 DAVE MARTIN, Chairman, Central Peninsula Advisory Committee, said             
 they unanimously supported SJR 19.  The system of local advisory              
 committees is working very well and is admired by people from down            
 south. He said the advisory committee process relays the local                
 public's input to any and all state and federal agencies on matters           
 pertaining to fish and game issues.  It is the envy of many states            
 in the lower 48.                                                              
                                                                               
 LOREN FLAGG, Kenai Peninsula Fishermen's Association (KPFA), said             
 he was a 27-year resident of Alaska.  KPFA has about 740 members              
 and they wholeheartedly support SJR 19.                                       
                                                                               
 Number 433                                                                    
 TOM WALKER, Cook Inlet Aquaculture Association, said the long term            
 strength of our salmon resources is so dependent on effective                 
 management that the experience and philosophy of the management               
 agency and personnel is of substantial concern.  They believe the             
 State of Alaska through its Department of Fish and Game is best               
 suited to manage these resources.  The department has a long                  
 history of management and demonstrated capability to carry out that           
 management with balanced concern for both the health of the                   
 resource and the needs of the various user groups.  To the extent             
 that clarification of the term public lands will help to assure               
 state management of the resources, at least, on state-owned and               
 non-public lands it has their support.  Their experience has been             
 that the federal agencies and their personnel have a perspective              
 which is narrow in focus and sufficiently inflexible to accommodate           
 the day-to-day, season-to-season, management adjustments which are            
 necessary for the optimum protection and use of the resources.                
                                                                               
 CHRIS MOSS, North Pacific Fisheries Association, said they support            
 SJR 19.  He said that federal management of resources is abysmal.             
                                                                               
 ED KROHN, Kenai Advisory Board, said they unanimously supported SJR
 19 at their last meeting and he asked for a show of hands from the            
 public (about 25 people) and no one opposed it.  He completely                
 supported Sterling Eide's earlier comments.                                   
                                                                               
 LYNN WHITMORE, Homer Advisory Board, said they didn't have any                
 native associations or villages in their advisory area.  In                   
 general, they are pleased to see the attempt to clarify ANILCA.               
 The intent and interpretation seems to vary with each                         
 administration.  They wholeheartedly supported SJR 19.                        
                                                                               
 RICHARD LINK, Kenai Peninsula Chapter of Safari Club International,           
 said their members fully supported SJR 19.  He said for years they            
 have been very concerned with the loss of control of management of            
 our fish and game.  He thought the state has done a good job in the           
 past and he would like to see them continue.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 541                                                                    
                                                                               
 DAN HASKINS, Alaska Bowhunters Association, said they have a                  
 membership of approximately 840.  They supported SJR 19                       
 wholeheartedly and would work with them to help push it through.              
                                                                               
 LEON METZ, Alaska Trappers Association, said they have a wide cross           
 section of membership.  They adamantly oppose management of the               
 state's fish and game by the federal government. The consequences             
 of bad federal management can be seen on the Kenai Peninsula, he              
 said, referring to their wolf population being full of lice.  He              
 said the wildlife populations need to be managed for the residents            
 of the state and the wildlife populations themselves.  They                   
 wholeheartedly supported SJR 19.                                              
                                                                               
 MERLE WALFORD, Homer Charter Association, said they voted                     
 unanimously to support SJR 19.  He said that the South Peninsula              
 Sportsman's Association unanimously supported SJR 19, also.                   
 Wildlife resources of Alaska belong to the people of the state and,           
 therefore, should be managed by the state.  Federal takeover of               
 game management would be a disaster.  If the federal government               
 can't get a handle on the tremendous by-catch problem, how can they           
 possibly manage our inland fisheries, he commented.  They have                
 completely mismanaged the Atlantic fisheries; there is nothing left           
 there.                                                                        
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-39, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 590                                                                    
                                                                               
 ED MARSTERS, Matanuska Valley Sportsmen, supported SJR 19.  He said           
 this association is one of the original founders of the Old Alaska            
 Wildlife Federation Sportsmen's Council.  He said the Valley                  
 Sportsmen are deeply concerned over federal encroachment on                   
 traditional state units.  SJR 19 is a positive and necessary first            
 step to reestablishing state management.  They are not opposed to             
 legitimate subsistence needs, however, they do not support                    
 unreasonable, discriminatory guidelines.  ANILCA in its current               
 form does exactly that.  Management of our resources by the federal           
 government will only lead to increased decision-making by those who           
 have no understanding of our problems and who are far removed from            
 Alaska's citizens.  They foresee increased social strife.  Asking             
 congress to reaffirm its original intent by clarifying the                    
 definition of "public lands" will begin the process of moving back            
 toward sound scientific management and solutions to our allocative            
 problems.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 552                                                                    
                                                                               
 JIM REARDON, retired fish and game person, said Senator Miller                
 invited him to provide a little history of the south central area             
 and this issue.  He said he was a resident of Alaska for 45 years             
 and has been professionally involved with Alaska's fish and game              
 since 1947.  He strongly supported SJR 19; positive action on it              
 could head off disaster for Alaska's fish and game.  He was certain           
 Alaska's delegation to Congress would not have voted for ANILCA if            
 the intent was federal preemption of management of Alaska's fish              
 and game.  Alaskans who think that federal management will benefit            
 the subsistence priority are dead wrong.                                      
                                                                               
 When he was a member of the Board of Game, every possible effort              
 was made to provide for the subsistence priority of rural                     
 residents.  It was the second highest priority of the Board coming            
 only after the primary responsibility which is to conserve the                
 resource.  The Board developed more kinds of subsistence standards            
 than with any other single issue.  No federal agency could have               
 done better.                                                                  
                                                                               
 History provides a ready answer if you ask what we could expect               
 under federal management.  He illustrated this point with a story             
 from 1960 when Governor Eagan addressed the first legislature.                
 Governor Egan said, "On January 1 of this year, Alaska's Department           
 of Fish and Game was handed the degraded remnants of what was once            
 a rich and prolific fishery.  From a peak of three quarters of a              
 billion pounds in 1936 (which is over 100 million salmon),                    
 production dropped in 1959 to its lowest in 60 years.  On these               
 ruins of a once great resource, the Department must rebuild.  That            
 last year of federal control, 1959, Alaska's salmon catch amounted            
 to 25 million fish."  Now after 35 years of state management, in              
 1994, the catch was 194 million fish.  This is a spectacular                  
 conservation achievement.                                                     
                                                                               
 Details of the federal debacle are spelled out in a book called               
 Politics in Conservation by Dr. Richard Cooley and Mr. Reardon              
 strongly recommended reading this.                                            
                                                                               
 MR. REARDON said he was a sonar operator in the U.S. Navy and in              
 1961 he proposed the idea of counting salmon with sonar.  Today               
 Alaska has salmon counters in virtually every major salmon stream.            
 This is only one break through the state has made.  By far the most           
 important difference in state and federal management has been the             
 field authority delegated to the state's area biologists.  This               
 allows flexibility in the constant effort to achieve balance                  
 between catch and escapement.  This is not the federal way.  He               
 used an example of an incident at Port Dick when a closure was                
 announced and as the boats were leaving, thousands of salmon were             
 arriving.  The fish were never harvested, because the federal                 
 government management system could not respond in time.                       
                                                                               
 DON POOLE, Alaska Bow Hunters Association, said they had 800 - 900            
 members and supported SJR 19.                                                 
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN announced a recess at 10:15 a.m. - 10:38 a.m.                   
                                                                               
 CHARLES DANIEL, Kenai, supported SJR 19.  He thought ADF&G is doing           
 a good job of managing our resources.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 389                                                                    
                                                                               
 DALE BONDURANT said he is a 47-year resident of Alaska and                    
 considers SJR 19 as a subsistence fight as well as a state's rights           
 fight.  He believes all Alaskans should be treated equally.  He               
 thinks we should tell the federal government to go to hell. The               
 Alaska Constitution says that a priority right for an exclusive               
 classification is unconstitutional.                                           
                                                                               
 MR. BONDURANT said the legislature made a half-hearted political              
 challenge to carry the ball when the Governor dropped it because it           
 was too hot.  The judge took the ball away and the                            
 legislature....went home crying.  They now refuse to challenge the            
 court with ANILCA, Title 8.   SJR 19 is a half-hearted attempt that           
 will end in a hollow victory and is only a detour to ending the               
 rural solution.                                                               
                                                                               
 He does not oppose SJR 19 on its merit, but he does not support               
 another round of taking orders from Judge Holland.  Repeal ANILCA,            
 Title 8, he said.                                                             
                                                                               
 BRAD AMES supported SJR 19, knowing that it was not a cure.                   
 Everyone can see the disastrous consequences of dividing Alaskans             
 up into individual groups and attempting to serve each of their               
 needs.  If the federal government insists on dictating terms to the           
 mandated constitutional protectors of the fish and game around the            
 state, then we might as well not have a state.                                
                                                                               
 STEVE VANEK, Ninilchik resident, said he gets to subsistence hunt             
 and fish on federal lands, but he doesn't think he should do this             
 on state and private lands on the Peninsula.  He asked, "Are we to            
 be a state in name only?"  Federal management cannot adequately               
 assess stocks or be on top of what is going on in local areas.                
                                                                               
 In response to Senator Lincoln, he said, that the fact of whether             
 the State's Constitution is amended or not does not alter the fact            
 that the language in ANILCA needs to be clarified.  If the public             
 lands designation is in question at this juncture, it will still be           
 in question whether the Constitution is amended or not.  This                 
 resolution does not affect subsistence since it doesn't change the            
 status quo.                                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked if he thought he should be given a priority on            
 federal land.  MR. VANEK said, personally, he didn't think the                
 Peninsula was the same as bush areas.  He didn't think it was a               
 necessity at all there.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 216                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LINCOLN said that Senator Stevens said it was up to                   
 Alaskans to build consensus on the whole issue of fish and game               
 management and not leave it up to our congressional delegation to             
 do that for us.  She did not think SJR 19 was a way to build                  
 consensus.  It is more divisive than anything else.  She thought              
 all Alaskans should sit down together and come up with a solution.            
                                                                               
 MR. VANEK responded that he thought that the wording in ANILCA                
 needed clarification whether or not Alaskans reach a consensus.               
                                                                               
 THEO MATTHEWS, Executive Director, United Cook Inlet Drift                    
 Association, supported SJR 19.  It's a clear statement of the                 
 state's rights and ability to manage fish and game for all users.             
 SJR 19 does not challenge the concept of state or federal                     
 subsistence.  Rural legislators need to realize the federal law is            
 simply inadequate.  Urban legislators recognize the subsistence               
 privilege is not a preference that is viable for their                        
 constituents.  We need to amend the federal law to make it so that            
 it does not systematically challenge other uses of the resources              
 and will protect the interests and villages users who are so                  
 dependent.                                                                    
                                                                               
 The third resolve is particularly important, because one of the               
 issues is that even if you win the right to manage on navigable               
 waters, ANILCA is bound not to allow Alaskans to extend our arms              
 into state waters and lands.                                                  
                                                                               
 He said the legislature, first and foremost, must adequately fund             
 the management of our resources.  It's embarrassing for us to go to           
 the feds and say you can't manage because you don't have the                  
 expertise.                                                                    
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-40, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 There are a number of state issues that need to be dealt with like            
 mixed stock management, how far down-stream must you go, the Where            
 2 issue, the Endangered Species Act, the definitions that are used            
 in ANILCA, like defining "rural," "customary and traditional,"                
 "reasonable opportunity," and, then if necessary, amend the State             
 Constitution.  No court has ever said that all Alaskans must be               
 subsistence users, MR. MATTHEWS said.                                         
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN noted that the 1992 subsistence law expires in                  
 October 1995 so that action must be taken this year.                          
                                                                               
 SEYMOUR MILLS said he has been here since 1963.  He wasn't happy              
 with the feds, but he didn't think SJR 19 was the solution either.            
 He didn't care for ANILCA at all.  He didn't believe in giving                
 legitimacy to an illegitimate act and ANILCA is illegitimate.  The            
 feds do not have jurisdiction unless we give it to them, he said.             
                                                                               
 MR. MILLS said that war has been declared on the state by the feds            
 and we have to address it in that manner.  Things have to be                  
 drafted that have teeth in them.  We have to start throwing out               
 these federal mandates.  The Statehood Compact does not address               
 equal footing which works against us.  The equal footing doctrine             
 was established under the Northwest Ordinance of 1787.  It says               
 that all states should enter the union on equal footing with the              
 originals in all respects, whatsoever.  Citizens of this state                
 don't have equals; they don't have the rights to their resources.             
                                                                               
 He supported CS FOR SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 6(RES) Relating to            
 federally held property in those states, including Alaska, admitted           
 to the Union since 1802 and HOUSE CS FOR SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION              
 NO. 7(STA) Relating to mandates imposed on the states by the                  
 federal government, because the feds are trespassing.                         
                                                                               
 Number 127                                                                    
                                                                               
 GARY SUPERMAN supported Mr. Mills testimony challenging the federal           
 right to be here in Alaska.  More and more people are working to              
 restore a constitutional republic with sovereign states,                      
 individuals, and, even, sovereign tribes.  Our Statehood Compact is           
 a fraud, he said.  We have no equal footing and we have no                    
 republican form of government.  The feds control more of our land             
 than we do in direct violation of constitutional law.  We must                
 challenge the feds at every opportunity.                                      
                                                                               
 ANILCA, he said, overrules Alaska's State Constitution, Article 1,            
 Section 15; Article 8, Section 14 and 16; and is an unlawful                  
 extension of Article 12, Section 12.                                          
                                                                               
 SJR 19 is another statement of disgust.  Let's support it for what            
 it is.  It will help to further the dialogue and educate a few more           
 people to get involved.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 208                                                                    
                                                                               
 AL FRANZMAN supported SJR 6, SJR 7, and SJR 19 as a start.  He                
 adamantly opposed amending our Constitution to comply with ANILCA.            
 As a former member of the Board of Game, he said that dual                    
 management of our wildlife resources will not work.                           
                                                                               
 ELAINA SPRAKER, a 25-year resident of Alaska, supported SJR 19.               
 She is the wife of a state wildlife biologist.  It's difficult for            
 her to understand why the federal government persists in trying to            
 take over management of Alaska fish and wildlife resources that               
 were granted to us by our State Constitution.  The federal                    
 government does not have the trained professionals to provide a               
 high standard of resource management that the state already has in            
 place nor does it provide for public input.                                   
                                                                               
 It is time for Alaskans to fight for what is best for our state and           
 all its people.  She urged the committee to go forth and amend                
 ANILCA.                                                                       
                                                                               
 GARY HULL supported SJR 19 saying that most of the reasons have               
 been stated already.  We don't need the federal government to do a            
 poor job.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 276                                                                    
                                                                               
 DEBRA HORNE, speaking on behalf of herself and her family,                    
 supported SJR 19. She thought it was a very important message to              
 send to Congress and said the federal government should not assume            
 the duties of any authority that belongs to the State of Alaska by            
 the Statehood Compact, and, more importantly, the U.S.                        
 Constitution.  ANILCA should be amended to concisely prohibit                 
 preemption of state jurisdiction on state and private lands and               
 waters.                                                                       
                                                                               
 JOE SCHWAB said he was a 5-day resident of Alaska.  He is a retired           
 Oregon State Police Fish and Wildlife Enforcement Officer with 25             
 years experience on the Columbia River. "If anybody wants to see              
 about or hear about a damaged river, a mismanaged river, it's the             
 Columbia River," he said.  He dealt with enforcement of                       
 subsistence, sport, and commercial regulations and it was a                   
 nightmare of federal intervention.  He thought the only hope for              
 that river would be a huge hatchery below Bonneville Dam.                     
                                                                               
 The experience he has in working with federal agencies is that they           
 do not have the manpower to enforce regulations and that is their             
 biggest problem.  They rely on the user to enforce themselves.                
 State agencies react to local needs and concerns.                             
                                                                               
 SJR 19 retains state control and allows orderly logical use of                
 resources.  Arbitrary boundaries do not work when managing                    
 wildlife.  Entire ecosystems must be managed to maintain a wildlife           
 population.                                                                   
                                                                               
 MICHAEL CRUGER, Galena resident, opposed SJR 19.  He said Galena              
 had lost 25% of its population in 10 years.  Most of those people             
 moved to the city to enjoy the amenities the city has to offer.               
 Those in Galena have made their choice to stay closer to God and              
 all they ask is to have first crack at state fish and game since              
 they live closer to mother nature.  He stated that he pays taxes              
 for urban paved roads and city sewage which his town doesn't even             
 have.  He said they live without a lot more than people in the city           
 do, so he did not think that he was being selfish.  He told (urban            
 dwellers, in general) that you can't have the best of both worlds.            
                                                                               
 He remarked about the few teleconference sites for this meeting.              
 SENATOR LEMAN noted that there were at least 20 different sites               
 across Alaska that were scheduled to testify on Monday.  He has               
 broken down the time slots so the committee could receive testimony           
 from every area.                                                              
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asked Mr. Cruger how SJR 19 affects him and the other           
 people in Galena from participating in subsistence and other                  
 lifestyle activities that are so important to them.  MR. CRUGER               
 said the feds were going along with them and he didn't know how to            
 solve this problem.  It seemed to him that whenever the majority              
 gets a decision everyone can live with, the minority takes it to              
 court and the court throws it out.                                            
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER asked him if he would rather have state management             
 or federal management.  MR. CRUGER replied that he would rather               
 have state management, because we live here, but it looks like the            
 state wants to make it equal.  So it was a very confusing issue, he           
 reiterated.                                                                   
                                                                               
 JOE JOLLY said he was a resident of the Kenai Peninsula and a                 
 commercial fisherman.  He supported SJR 19, because it was a start            
 in the right direction.  He thought that a lot more needed to be              
 done.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 483                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHARLIE PARKER said he is a 34-year resident of Alaska and he                 
 wanted to put in a good word for the federal government.  He said             
 they have every right to make their own rules on their own lands.             
 The land doesn't belong to Alaskans, it belongs to all Americans              
 and it should be managed on their behalf.  Alaskans should not have           
 any special privileges to manage federal lands.  He said the                  
 federal government has been very generous to us since statehood and           
 he urged that we keep that perspective in mind.  He said the only             
 land we have jurisdiction over is land that we own which was a gift           
 from the federal government.                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. PARKER said he opposed amending our State Constitution to allow           
 rural subsistence priority.  He believed that fish and game is a              
 common property of all the people.  He thought withdrawing the                
 lawsuit challenging the federal government's definition of rural              
 subsistence priority was a mistake.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 532                                                                    
                                                                               
 GARY CADD, Kenai resident, said in 1980 Congress passed a bill                
 which was ANILCA.  After that the federal government said that we             
 had to change our State Constitution and this is crooked                      
 legislation.  We made an agreement with the federal government in             
 1958 and the federal government is coming back and saying we should           
 change that agreement.                                                        
                                                                               
 He did not think Alaska got a fair shake when we became a state.              
 We need to stand for what is right for Alaskans.                              
 SENATOR LEMAN thanked everyone for their testimony and adjourned              
 the meeting at 11:55 p.m.                                                     
                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects